HDTV using the SVideo connector

[dark_dreamer]

Let me rephrase what I understood... you plugged your widescreen plasma to your desktop HTPC which has a GeForce 6600 graphic card. You used the SVideo cable. And you wish to achieve a good quality image in the native resolution of your plasma: 1240x698.

As I told you before... the SVideo outputs a NTSC or PAL signal. The main version give the following resolutions respectively: 720x480 @60Hz and 720x576 @50Hz.

So outputing the PC resolution of 1280x720 is way beyond what the SVideo can accept. If fact you are lucky that the GPU converts such a high resolution into a standard video signal. Being that extreme has a couple of side effects: extreme loss of resolution and color issues.

To get a "perfect" image you have to use a hidef port... VGA or DVI or HDMI. PERIOD

Hi Fabrice and everyone,

Fabrice do you work for Nvidia or are you in the NVD? I just wonder what qualifications you have to speak with the authority that you seem to.

In my case, my desktop PC's 7800GT is connected via SVIDEO to my LOEWE WS 32" CRT @ 1280x720P. I also have perfect picture clarity and in fact many of my friends who do indeed own LCD TVs often comment on my picture qaulity being superior to those produced by their own sets.

I will repeat for clarification I'm running at 720P via SVIDEO into my WS CRT. Granted this was a very expensive TV when it was released some 5 years ago and yes it's an unusual design in that it processes all video DIGITALLY interally at any res as, but only seems to accept 480P via componet RGB, yet the screen itself is capable of much higher resiolution (@ 720P there is some minor black barring, say less than 1 cms top and and bottom, whereas I can set a custom res of 1280x800 and it's almost gone entirely. I personally think my screens native res is even higher, even though I've yet to find any real documentation that refutes or supports this claim - LOEWE don't seem to be very forthcoming on their CRT specs and the tech guys/repairers I've spoken to just shrug and siay "it's higher than most generic HDTV LCDs".

At any rate, in the mix of the internet there are people who are doing a lot more than just the generic approach when it comes to HDTV and Widescreen Gaming.

Just thought you and the other forum members would like to know.

http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000889ul2.jpg - it's been rescaled down, so obviously some resolution is lost. The pic was taken with a Panasonic DMC LX1 Digicam @ 8.4MP and scaled so I could host it om imageshack. I've also attached a higher res image for comparison.

I'm happy to supply more photos and vids of this in operation should anyone be interested.

note the svideo connector on the side, no other inputs are used.

Have a nice day. :)

[Fabrice Roux]

I'll try to answer from the obvious to the less obvious...

I don't work for nVidia and I'm not a nVidia developper. I just happen to have a lot of experience in the PC and video domain.

The quality of a video signal is equivalent to the quality of the weakest link of the chain. In both of your cases... it's the transmission between the PC and the screen. You just can't beat the quality of a digital cable such as HDMI or DVI.

In case you ask here is the ranking from best quality to worse:

- HDMI and DVI-D

- VGA, DVI-A, RGB component (available on SCART connector in Europe)

- YPrPb (refered as Compoment)

- SVideo

- Composite

- RF modulation (what you get from the analog antenna)

I have no doubt that you enjoy the image on your TV...otherwise you would not use it. But it seems that either your uber 8.1 MEGAPIXEL camera did a poor job or your setup is blurry. From what I see on your full size image... using my personal scale... the image on the TV is unusable.

From what you say your TV turns the interlaced analog PAL-N or PAL-NC (that you use in Argentina) it receive thru the SVideo connector into a progressive scan image. The interlacing of the chrominance Red and Blue lines means that you lose a lot of information in comparison to VGA/Components/SCART.

If you have some time read what SVideo and PAL can do.

[dark_dreamer]

I'll try to answer from the obvious to the less obvious...

I don't work for nVidia and I'm not a nVidia developper. I just happen to have a lot of experience in the PC and video domain.

The quality of a video signal is equivalent to the quality of the weakest link of the chain. In both of your cases... it's the transmission between the PC and the screen. You just can't beat the quality of a digital cable such as HDMI or DVI.

In case you ask here is the ranking from best quality to worse:

- HDMI and DVI-D

- VGA, DVI-A, RGB component (available on SCART connector in Europe)

- YPrPb (refered as Compoment)

- SVideo

- Composite

- RF modulation (what you get from the analog antenna)

I have no doubt that you enjoy the image on your TV...otherwise you would not use it. But it seems that either your uber 8.1 MEGAPIXEL camera did a poor job or your setup is blurry. From what I see on your full size image... using my personal scale... the image on the TV is unusable.

From what you say your TV turns the interlaced analog PAL-N or PAL-NC (that you use in Argentina) it receive thru the SVideo connector into a progressive scan image. The interlacing of the chrominance Red and Blue lines means that you lose a lot of information in comparison to VGA/Components/SCART.

If you have some time read what SVideo and PAL can do.

Duh. I don't think I'll be posting again. While you seem informed, in actual fact you're just criticising from down on high. Meanwhile, I'll go back to enjoying my setup. Oh and I'm not in limited to whatever the BROADCAST standard is wherever I happen to be (pretty clever of you to look it up though). Seeing as the TV can accept any known analog signal format I'm free to set it up as I like (up to 100hz infact), so you're perception of what my TV is doing (I don't suppose you think you're a Loewe engineer now, do you?) is just plain wrong. It's not interpolatiing the signal down to 720x576, it's displaying 720P as a 1280lx720 pixelplane/bitplane. The TV responds to NV's 720P profile (and higher line counts too) profile in the custom resolution settings, so therefore it's capable of 720P, simple as that. Sure it's not as sharp as a LCD, but all 720P vdeo looks better on my screen than it does on a variety of freinds LCD monitors and TV (including plasmas) in my opinion and others. For sure, the pixel blur has soimething to do with it, can't wait for short shift CRT, LCD doesn't do it for me, with the exception of the 30" Dell and Apple Cinema Displays and them only for their features and resolution. Anyway, I've used the VGA INPUT card on this display and it's only marginally sharper and of course fills the screen entirely. It's native res is 1280x800, but unfortunately it's incompatible with Windows XP and higher so I'm limited to SVIDEO. That said, do look the TV up, I think you'll be suprised and truely informed, instead of throwing wikipedia links at me in some attempt to look smarter.

heh. Your attitude is entertaining at the very least and you managed to limit yourself to just bolding the information that was intended to be crammed down my throat.

I hope some others can glean some benefit from this. I'm surely not the only person in the world using this CRT with a decent VGA card for WS HDTV and gaming.

Oh my the internets are such friendly places.

[Fabrice Roux]

You seem to spit details one by one... by the end of the day we might have a complete picture. You use the HDTV modes of your graphic card... which means that what you refer as SVideo is not SVideo... it just shares the mini-DIN (4 or more pins) connector used by the SVideo mode.

It's beyond an abuse of language to call your setup as SVideo.

Those HDTV mode are meant to be used with DVI, HDMI, RVB components and YPrPb components.

If i understand correctly... you are able to send a 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p signals thru the 4 pins mini-DIN connector.

To find the references to your TV I had to look on the picture... Loewe Xelios 32 CRT. Whatever combination of terms give pointless results with Google.

I don't know how it works in Argentina... but in Europe providing links to Wikipedia don't make you look smarter. :)

What I'm looking for when I get a screen is being able to work in front of the computer for 16h in a row without having to take Nuprin intravenously. I look for resolution and color quality.

Your setup qualify for movie playing and gaming... not working. As I said ealier... you enjoy your setup and I have no doubt on that. (I used the bold only here in order to avoid further comments) If you want to display how your screen behaves... use a tripod and disable the flash... the flash reflections mess with the autofocus.

You might want to ask some questions here about your issues with Windows XP.

[dark_dreamer]

You seem to spit details one by one... by the end of the day we might have a complete picture. You use the HDTV modes of your graphic card... which means that what you refer as SVideo is not SVideo... it just shares the mini-DIN (4 or more pins) connector used by the SVideo mode.

It's beyond an abuse of language to call your setup as SVideo.

Actually no, what was abusive was yopu throwing specs at me and assuming I didn't know what I was tlaking about.

I never called it SVIDEO, I said and have repeated often that I'm utilising 720P via the SVIDEO interface, due to the fact that NVIDIA allows for it in a combination of their driver and HD output implementations.

Your repsonses seem to indicate that you have the incorrect perception that there is only one way to achieve HD resolution output. Obviously Nvidia disagrees with you, despite your apparent sense of superiority.

Those HDTV mode are meant to be used with DVI, HDMI, RVB components and YPrPb components.

Gee thanks Mr NVD.LOL They're MEANT to be used in ANY way the user would like to use them, this is what's known as giving your customers choices and not limiting them to one defined path. AKA consumerisim, not communism. hehe

If i understand correctly... you are able to send a 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p signals thru the 4 pins mini-DIN connector.

Finally, three posts loater, you 'understand correctly", yes. Congratulations, I do hope it didn't hurt too much :)

To find the references to your TV I had to look on the picture... Loewe Xelios 32 CRT. Whatever combination of terms give pointless results with Google.

Well if you struggle to use Google, what can I say? Only kidding. I know the Xelos (my model) documentation isn't easy to come by, some repairer is actuially trying to get me the engineering manuals for self repair in future. I have been waiting since january. hehe

I don't know how it works in Argentina... but in Europe providing links to Wikipedia don't make you look smarter. :)

I did say 'in attempt', I didn't say you were sucessful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOEWE

What I'm looking for when I get a screen is being able to work in front of the computer for 16h in a row without having to take Nuprin intravenously. I look for resolution and color quality.

Colour you say? My Screen's contrast's specs far outweight those of even the most expensive LCDs and Plasmas and it's internal 3:2 pulldown beats the performance of any LCD's faroudja DCDI that I have seen when it comes to motion. We do watch MOVIES and not single frames, so internal 3:2 pulldown makes for a really pleasurable watching experience. I guess we look for different things.

Your setup qualify for movie playing and gaming... not working.

The arrogance of that statement alone negates any other positive statements you may have made previously and into the future. My setup is working and working well, just not to your 'specs', of course you're talking without having seen it in action, aside from a rushed photo. People like to do that a lot on the internet and thus we get the illusion of 'standards' and reference specs being limited. They're not but your point of view is. Oh well.

As I said ealier... you enjoy your setup and I have no doubt on that. (I used the bold only here in order to avoid further comments) If you want to display how your screen behaves... use a tripod and disable the flash... the flash reflections mess with the autofocus.

Well sure, if I was to designate time to doing so it would detract from my enjoyment of watching Terminator II WMV9 on this screen, which actually looks amazing, as do all of the AVC/Quicktime 7 HD previews. I'm not sure what your experience is but I actually have done broadcast animation for TV and Feature Film (3DSMax, Photohop, AFter Effects and Premiere/AVID) and targeted output resolutions don't tend to matter as much the quality of work itself. The best rendered CGI survives any resolution interpolation, like the stuff in Firefly/Serenity the Movie and very much unlike that of any of the modern Star Trek's (with the exception of the last two movies, where they went with a far more professional team of CGI artists - they used proper focal lengths to match those they filmed the real life actors with, making for a far more consistent 'look and feel' for the CGI overall). In the case of Voyager, some of the CGI is even rendered at an entirely different spec - interleaved vs what they filmed the stuff on set.

You might want to ask some questions here about your issues with Windows XP.

Excuse me? Did I mention I had problems with Windows XP? I said that the Loewe TV's VGA Input card isn't compiatible with XP and it isn't. The device ID for the card isn't to XP's specs and so XP will not correctly detect it, I do have an upgrade path by purchasing a more modern chassis (the portion of the TV that does all of it's internal signal processing) but seriously can't be bothered. this is fine for me at present. I'll be buying a higher resolution monitor when the needs arisies, when I get my GX2 basically, otherwise it's a pretty pointless exercise as no HD video looks any better on even the highest resolution screens i've seen, gaming does but that's a given and that's why the GX2 and appropriate monitor for me soon.

I'm not quite sure why you think I need help, but thanks for the thought anyway. I doubt anyone here is a Loewe technician, but am more than willing to find out.

EDIT: I edited your post since the bad quoting made it unreadable. Fabrice

Edited July 25, 2006 by Fabrice Roux

[dark_dreamer]

You just can't beat the quality of a digital cable such as HDMI or DVI.

Umm yeah, you can ESPECIALLY if you don't want HDCP forcing you to watch limited LICENSED sources for video in future.

it seems that either your uber 8.1 MEGAPIXEL camera did a poor job or your setup is blurry. From what I see on your full size image... using my personal scale... the image on the TV is unusable.

!. My Camera is 8.4 MP with the only widescreen CCD available so get your facts straight. For a supposed photographer you seemingly don't know about one of the best digicams available in mini format. It supports RAW format too and is basically an SLR (minus exchangable lens of course). Yes I know what Single Lens Reflex means, it's OK, no need for links or bolded statements thanks. You're right in saying that my camera is nice though, the leica lens does help too. :) All I need now is a nice Lunix leather case and I'll be Peter Parker for the 2000s. heh He used a Lumix too, in the 60s, Spiderman that is, incase you missed the reference.

2. Neither of the supplied images are at full resolution. Having trouble working out what 8.4MP is meant to be? LOL Kinda hard to upload a 2.5MB file to a webhoster or here as it's too big.

3. Conisidering the target res for games and consoles for the next couple of years or so is bound to be 720P I think my screen image is usable at present. Kinda seems logical to me, as it can do 720P and higher, but I have a feeling logic doesn't seem to be part of this discussion at times.

:)

[Fabrice Roux]

I really do feel sorry if you got offended by me calling your 8.4 Megapixel camera a 8.1 Megapixel camera.

I really really thank you for sharing the specifications of your marvelous digital camera. I like when you say Lumix and Leica.

I'm really really really exited when you share with us your future desktop computer hardware components.

I'm really really really really sorry that you understood that I stated that your gear didn't worked for the need you have for it.

I'm really really really really really pleased to ear that your tv (hope that term is not offending to your screen) has such a great scaler that allows to kick well known products in the nuts.

I'm really really really really really really sorry that I taunted you with another excessive use of bolding innapropriately.

I'm really really really really really really really sorry to put an end to this pointless (even for the offtopic forum) computer and photographic and home cinema hardware bragging pissing contest by locking the topic.

EDIT: Personnal message I just received.

Thanks for your mature approach to a discussion. You are a wonderful moderator. No really, the ###### Party is calling for members as we speak. I'm sure you'll find much joy and pleasure in negating people there too.

haha

Anyway, the post edits are appreciated, but your use of bold leaves much to be desired. Maybe you would benefit from look at some other forums to see how other moderators deal with people. Questioning intelligencie isn't the best way to make people feel welcome and despite the fact that you moderate some portion of this site, this site and therefore your role as a moderator is nothing without regular posters.

I would've thought that my technical diversity was pretty apparent and that someone like me would be of interest to site like yours. I guess not. Your smarmy response at the end really doesn't make me want to post again.

Oh well. Thanks for you time anyway.