Stop this hate towards the 8400M

[Ex Bond]

Why do people constantly moan and complain like the 8400m is the ultimate worst card of all time? I can honestly say that it most certainly is not the worst of all time. It actually is a pretty damn good budget card. Here's a list of games I own and how they run:

BioShock - runs at about 30 FPS in DX9 mode with most high detail options selected in 1280 x 768

COD 2 - runs perfectly in DX9 mode with AA 2x, 1280 x 768, Anisotropic, all high detail. Runs even better with DX7 mode.

F.E.A.R. - Runs very well in 1280 x 768 with semi-maximum/medium detail. However, FSAA makes it suffer, I will admit.

GRAW 2 - Very demanding game that requires a lot out of any machine. Had to struggle to get it runnign good, but I finally got it running in 1280 x 768 with most detail on high or medium, with AA on "Edge Smoothing", and in Anisotropic 16x. I disabled Dynamic Lights and Shadows though, which made a significant increase in frame rate. best thing is, it still looks good without it.

Guild Wars - Not very demanding game. Everything is maximum.

Half-Life 2/Half-Life 2:Episode One/Counterstrike: Source - Everything maximum. I mean everything.

Halo 2 : Everything maximum except resolution, which is 1024 x 768.

Madden NFL '08 - Another light-demanding game. Everything maximum.

NFS Carbon: Very demanding. Everything maximum, AA 2x, 1024 x 768, Motion Blur off.

Oblivion - VERY demanding game. I run it in High Detail with the grass disabled in 1280 x 768 and HDR lighting which looks better but no AA.

Resident Evil 4 - Not too demanding but has a lot of detail and figures to load. I run it perfectly.

I use the 158.36 drivers. Bad thing is, I haven't even showed what my machine does when overclocked. yes the 8400M isnt the best card we have seen and it certainly isnt the revolutionary card we have all been waiting for. hell, I was pissed when I discovered I was lied to when they said the card had 383 dedicated memory. BUT, dont tell lies about the damn card just because it isnt perfect.

[Guest Anchel]

Well, I have to said I was pretty happy with my 8400M GT even if it was only with 64 Mb of dedicated memory (up to 853 in total). Or at least I was until I started having problems with many of the games I had.

Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones just didn't want to play properly, running at awful framerates that usually stuck under 10 FPS. Rayman Raving Rabbids ran at whatever speed the game wanted to in each level (sometimes it was fast as hell, faster than it should, and sometimes it was sloooow). Lost Planet DX10 demo allowed me to play correctly: the game ran fast and clear, but every 5 seconds the game would show me a message saying the game couldn't run on my PC (and then still let me keep playing until the message appeared YET AGAIN, which was frustrating...).

It is not a bad graphics card at all. As you just said it runs Bioshock, Halo 2 and Oblivion quite well, but somehow drivers hate that card in combination with some games. Otherwise it is a pretty good card for gaming in a laptop when considering that a laptop means PORTABILITY.

[Ex Bond]

Thank you. I for one, am frankly tired of people grieving on the 8400M. People don't realize that most problems that may arise with this video card can be dealt with easily. Its a good card for what it costs. If they wanted the best then they should have PAID for the best.

[Anchel]

By the way, have you tried Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones on that card? I would really like to know if I'm the only one having problems with that game :S

[®®®]

good thread. :)

[Ex Bond]

One thing I have noticed is that DX10 games do sort of suffer. However, most problems can be easily solved concerning that.

[iudeus]

Ok, i've got a 8400m gt, which is better then yours, and i don't even get close to the preformance u're getting. I mean, in nfs carbon for instance if i put it all on high on 1024x768 it barely does 20 fps!!!

Not to even mention i don't have the "nerve" to play anything on 1280x800 or whatever.

I don't like to accuse you, cos i also have an 8400m (though GT), but your performance sounds SO SCIENCE FICTION that i can (and i'm sorry but i can't control it) only say that you really are a liar, or, if you're not, you're certainly using a trick orsomething that i think we should be aware of 2.

Don't hate me for calling you a liar, but i've got a 8400m gt, not gs, and i don't get that kind of performance.

Maybe there are some tricks i should be aware of.

PEACE

oh! and GRAW 2?!?!?!?!?! C'MON!!! mine barely mooves when i put everything on LOW!!! 1280x768 with almost everything on high and antistropic 16x....

R U SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!

is there no one that sees this bullcrap!!! ??? it's impossible to achieve with a 8400m GT let alone a GS!!!

[Ex Bond]

lol, I thought someone might eventually get to this. first of all, what processor and RAM do you have? Second what's your HDD speed? Third of all, do you even know how to change the individual settings for GRAW 2 and please be aware that on DX10 cards GRAW 2 always has a frame skipping problem and yet I get about 25 FPS at my current settigns. Fourth of all, on NFS Carbon, I didn't get good performance till I installed a modded driver. in any case, I wish there was a way I could prove it. Maybe FRAPS can show some benchmarks. I can check. But I am most definitely not a liar. I must admit that the settings above dont get me a full 30 FPS but the get me at least 25 FPS.

Edited October 21, 2007 by Ex Bond

[iudeus]

i've got intel core 2 duo 2.0 ghz processor (t7300 i think) and 2 gigs of ram. 5400 rpm hdd speed.

I'm going to get an external hdd drive, seagate, 7400 rpm or smth like that and linked through fire-wire which will be pretty fast.

Maybe you could help me on this and you could suggest which driver to use.

I've got a modded....158.smth driver, i forgot. Thing is, i used to hae 163.44, 163.69 and 2 more drivers maybe, and this one is the fastest yet. Maybe you've got a faster one.

[Anchel]

Iudeus, you're using the Vaio FZ-11M?

Then I may be able to tell you why it is not working so well for you.

Take into account that the VRAM of your NVidia 8400M GT is NOT 128 Mb, but instead it is 64 Mb.

I had the same dissapointment as you after I found out that my FZ-18M had the same problem.

Just go to the NVidia Control Panel and choose System Information on the lower-left corner and see for yourself.

[iudeus]

both 8400m gt and gs have 64 mb dedicated memory.

If you go to the nvidia site, there's a page about 8400m series, and the difference between 8400m gt and gs is the sepeed at which it calculates (polygons per second or smth like that) which is almost double for 8400m gt, and the maximum memory (including shared) that it can use in high speed (making shared memory have almost the same speed as dedicated memory, which basically makes it all a sort of "dedicated memory" quality), which is 512mb ( i repead, check it on nVidia site). Thing is the 8400m GT (for gs i think it's max 256) rarely manages to speed up all 512mb (it has 831 total available memory -shared + dedicated- ) so basically, in most games it uses between 128 and 256 mb, which practically means most games run as if i have 128-256 mb video card (dedicated).

Such is the case of quake wars enemy territory, fear (including extraction point), stalker, and some other games i've tried and cant remember....oh! Hellgate London demo, games which i can say with the hand on my heart that i can run on medium-high (1024x768) -and i mean medium high- with real good scores. (about 30-40 fps)

for instance, on medium high (60-70% of options on maximum, rest in medium, with dynamic lights on) fear , in the test, gave me an avarage of 41, with 1% under 25fps, about 80% in the middle, and 20% aboove 60fps or whichever fps was the highest in their test.

Thing is, some games, either becaouse of the card, either becaouse of vista and the many incompatibilities that surrond it, run as if i had probably 128 mb (slower).

Such is the case of GRAW 2, which does not perform bad, but the fps sometimes jump funny, and halo 2 which crashes , though runs good, hmmm and especially NFS CARBON, which is much less demanding then the games i can run on my pc very good, but yet runs like hell when i put everything on high, and even medium high.

Knowing that, having informed myself all over the net about this problems and this videocard (even the thing with the shared-memory speeding up wich is probably possible becaouse of the mother board, or an agreement between nvidia and sony or whichever provider, don't know exactly, it must be true, cos u can't run enemy territory so great on a 64mb:P), and knowing it's possibilities and also 8400m GS and 8400M G specs, when i;ve heard this guy with a 8400 GS saying that it's pretty good (thing which was fine with me) and that he can run GRAW 2 and NFS CARBON as good as he said at his first post on this thread (?!?!??!?!) i immediately knew this has to be fake or there's something up with this guys pc that he does know about.

I, as most of us have a driver with modified inf (155 series, don't know which) after testing a few, and so far this is the best i have, so i know a thing or 2 about tweaking and what works with wat, and i've even tried the modified settings this guy gave us for graw 2 wihch don't work, thus i'm mostly sure he's either lieing or not telling the whole truth.

BTW, as i recall, on one thread he admitted not being able to run graw 2 smooth on 30 fps, but rather with about 22 fps with graw's wierd jumping-fps bug or whatever which makes it seem even more slow. (just like the rest of us)

Buddy, there's quite a big difference between smooth 30fps, and not so smooth 22 fps, so next time you brag about something you're pc can't achieve, at least don't admit that your performances ain't that high :) it makes u look even worse, and even more stupid for these like me who have a better card than you do and know that even ours can't pull off the performances in some games that you claim your GS can :)

[Anchel]

Sony vaio vgn-fz11m

· 1280x800 (WXGA)

· (0426) GeForce 8400M GT

· VRAM: 128MB

Those are the specs in your profile. I mentioned your video card having 64 Mb because you posted it has 128 instead.

And by the way, not all 8400M GT cards are 64 Mb. In fact, if you look at Sony Vaio's website you will see some of them offer 256 Mb of dedicated video memory. And no, shared video memory isn't as nearly as fast as dedicated video memory.

But what Ex Bond is saying is true, NFS Carbon at least CAN work as good as he is saying on an 8400M GS because I have seen it myself. I don't know about GRAW 2 (I don't even know that game). Take into account that the drivers you use can significantly change the framerates of some games.

Just don't get heated up so quickly if you cannot believe what he says. There are other ways of saying the same without going that far. It's ok if you want to express your oppinion, but there really is no need to complain about what he is saying.

I for one think he made quite a good point even though I myself sold my laptop because the 8400M GT 64 Mb wasn't good enough for my needs.

[Ex Bond]

Uh, first of all, I don't have any "secret" enhancements. I am also most certainly not lying. GRAW 2 runs at 25 FPS at my current settings because it wont get to 30 unless I put it on 800 x 600. As you said there's some weird bug that will make it skip no matter what. I experienced the same problem when playing Call of Duty 4. i think you just liek being obstructionist and over assertive on proving people wrong. Yes there's a "difference" between 22 FPS and 30 FPS, but don't accuse me of being a liar because there's is no way to prove what I have. Also, I don't know whats wrong with your machine, but Halo 2 never crashes for me. NFS Carbon DOES work as I said it does and I thank Anchel for backing me up on that. If you want the specific settings for GRAW 2, I will clarify:

1280 x 800

Environmental Detail on ZERO - Disables the grass which makes things run smoother.

Disable Dynamic Lights and Dynamic Shadows

Make all detail mostly high, with plant detail on low.

These settings DO give me 25 FPS and I find these favorable since it greatly reduces jaggies.

You need to give it a rest, especially since you are the ONLY one who even questioned my post. if you are going to be mad because the 8400M didn't live up to your expectations then go punch a punching bag or something. Don't try to tear other people down.

[ChepA]

Hi...

Who try to play GTA: San Andreas? I install this game and when i play, i begin to play an sudelly occurs an error and the game close. I'm using Windows Vista Ultimate. Someone know how to play San Andreas without errors?

I played Carbon and i didn't set this settings. Maybe is the drive i installed. I'll try the same configuration and drivers and play again.

[]'s

[Ex Bond]

Lol, the same thing happened when I tried to play GTA: SA. The only times it worked is when I ran it right after I logged on, so I am assuming its a problem with one of the services running. But once I got it running, i can say that it runs with everything maximum in 1024 x 768.

[iudeus]

Ok, regarding the GRAW 2, i didn't know that i had to set that detali to 0.0, and now it actually works very well, i almost get no more lag on high and it's ok.

So i appologise if i was 2 in to what i was saying.

However, if i do actually have only 64mb ram and ther rest shared (slow) memory, i firstly find it unbelievable that games i mentioned in my 1st post can run that smoother on those pretty much high settigns

Secondly, why did they give all laptops but this 256 mb (8400m gt) ?!?!?! This annoys me a lot, what's the point?! couldn't they at least give it 128? It's almost like stealing! I'm starting to hate sony :|

How much did u pay for ur fz21s , ANCHEL?

I currently live in romania for business and i bought this latop for about...1100 euros (from SonyCenter)

Oh, and here's a stupid question but i really want to ask it:

Is there NO WAY (traditonal or not) to update my gpu? to lets' say a 8600m gt (i know u can't find them in stores, but let's say i could get my hands on one -just assuming-) ?

[Anchel]

Iudeus, I was in your very same situation just a week and a half ago.

I couldn't understand why Sony wouldn't just show that the 8400M GT provided with my FZ18M was only 64 Mb (now with newer laptops they DO mention how much dedicated video memory the card has, I guess somebody launched a lawsuit).

I also tried to look about upgrading the video card, but all I found is that NO, there is absolutely no way you can change the GPU in a Sony Vaio laptop. They just aren't designed for it...

As for the FZ21S I am lucky to have direct contact with a distributor (techdata, an Italian company that also has distributors in Spain) that sells first to computer stores at a cheaper price. So instead of the 1550 euros price marked on SonyStyle's online shop, I got it for 1100 euros. And through the same distributor I was able to sell back my FZ18M (at a lower price being now second-hand but only with a one-month-use) so I practically only had to spend a hundred euros or so more to get the 21S.

And YES, Sony is famous for its marketing campaigns and public relations (I really focus on that because I'm studying advertising and public relations myself). They always get their products to stand out from the rest via marketing schemes so they can charge you more for a product that could very well be a lot cheaper. But that doesn't mean Sony products are all bad. In fact the Sony brand will always have an aura of "quality" to it. But sometimes they forget it's the user they should really be caring about, and it is then when things like the one of your video card happen.

[iudeus]

Yeah, well, i do also think that sony is a good quality company, but they care 2 much about money, and honestly this thing with my laptop, not saying anything on any site and all of the sudden me getting :) to find out i have some lousy 64 mb dedicated video (last time i had 64 mb on a pc was in 2002-2003 i think) has made me check my budged yesterday, and decided that i actually am going, within 1 month, to sell this peace of crap (for gaming, othetwise i must admit it is amazing, but the videocard ARGHH!!!) and buy a xps m1730 (dell).

The CEO of Dell Romania happens to be a good friend of mine , i've already talked to him, customized it, and standard it's about 5000 euros, but after i'll give him my laptop together with the discound he'll make it i'll be getting it at about 3600-3700 euros. I know it's a lot of money but i'm sick of always having a pc (laptop) that just can't make games play good!!! I've decided to spend this much money (which i would do only once, in the future it's gonna be only PlayStation / xbox for me) just once so i can say "here, i've finally got a machine that can really do the job"

[Raphie]

The CEO of Dell Romania happens to be a good friend of mine

Dell has no office in Romania :) :)

[Anchel]

3xxx euros for a laptop???? THAT'S INSANE!!

Even Alienware's laptops don't get that expensive (not to mention that you say you're getting that price with a discount).

You should really check for a price/quality balance, otherwise you will end up with a laptop that does many functions you don't need and THAT is what a lot of people would call wasting their money.

Maybe I should clarify myself about the techdata distributor thing I mentioned earlier:

My father owns a small local computer store dedicated to preparing the local networks inside the customer companies. Their service not only builds the network, but also sells the computers and provides tech support. Don't think it is a big company however, as it just provides services for my small town (around 17000 habitants). And as any other computer store, they need to order pieces in big quantities to replenish their stock, and that always comes at a cheaper price. Techdata is the distributor my father's store uses most to replenish the stock, and we just ordered 5 VAIO FZ21S for the store, along with some other products, getting them for a cheaper price. And one of those I got it for myself. I only had to pay what Techdata charged for it, taking out the added price a store usually places upon the product (most of the time there is a recommended price coming from Sony). What computer stores earn when you buy from them is the difference between the recommended price and the distributor's price.

And why am I saying all this? Just so you don't think I'm a liar who is trying to bloat about knowing "secret methods" of getting cheaper products.

I hope this cleared things up a little bit.

[nojamat]

Can anyopne explain me how to use the shared memory in my FZ18M?

I tried to run Europa Universalis III and is asking me for 128Mb, being my 8400m GT just 64Mb.

How can I do that?

[Guest johny]

i have an aus notebook with 8400m g and i also have reasons to hate it.i know that it's not as bad as they say it is,but maaan something must be done with the drivers!so PLEASE someone tell me which drivers are the best(as far as it concerns performance) for XP x32/Vista x32 for my 8400m g?so fari've had the best performance with the 169.02(1235 pts 3dmark '06).

[Guest Guest]

30FPS on bioshock with all settings high? And in such a high resolution (high in my opinion me anyway) ? I have a 8600m gt 256mb gddr2, overclocked to 600/500 and with everything set to high, cept for Real time reflection and V-sync, on a resolution of 1024 * 640, it still runs quite low, average around 30FPS too, you must have a 8700m GS in 8400m GS clothing.

P.S. In Fort Frolic, i barely touch 30 ==

[Ex Bond]

I dunno what the hell is up with everything about the 8400M. But I wouldn't blame the card. Blame the people who sold it to you. I have been told three different things about the memory about the card. First, it was 383mb. then 128. Now 64 mb. This is NVIDIA/Your laptop manufacturers fault. I guarantee if everyone knew the truth about these cards, no one would have bought them. But you know, we did buy them, so we should all make the best of things. To any and all problems, I recommend either getting the 169.xx drivers if gaming is your problems or get the most recent WHQL drivers if other stuff is.

[Ex Bond]

Can anyopne explain me how to use the shared memory in my FZ18M?

I tried to run Europa Universalis III and is asking me for 128Mb, being my 8400m GT just 64Mb.

How can I do that?

I would use a registry editor and fool the program into thinking you have a 128 or you can probably find some .ini or .xml file and tell it you have a 8600, but memory detection shouldn't be a problem. Better yet, you could probably tell it to skip video detection. I play GRAW 2 and it requires 128 minimum to even run.