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bad performance with dx10


Pistino01

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why is DX10 so s***ty in games or maybe overall ... ?? is it besause its the first version ?? if so where can i get DX10.1 ?

Thx , Pistino01

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Guest MonkeyMhz

The fact is, DirectX 10 version isnt the problem. The problem is no "real" directx10 games have came out yet. All these games out now days are slapped together with DX9 and a overlayer of DX10 to add some effects. Game development takes years, when they started most games its base was DX9. Once you start seeing "real" full dx10 enabled games come out the performance will be much better. Because honestly. Ive done programming with dx10 and its fine. Right now were not even seeing any differences between dx9 and 10. Its pretty much a wasted feature right now. Just wait a couple months down the line or so.

And now days people have such a large misconception of dx10. Noob: "OMFG DX 10 LOLOLOL ROFLCOPTER OMG its LIEK RENDER AMZAZYING! MAKES EVERYTHING LOOK SOO GOOD OMFG DX9 LOLOLOL DX10 OWNS"....

Yea right, directx is like a kinda fixed pipleline, new versions must come out to add newer features and stuff. However the majority of the things in dx10 can all be achived with dx9. It just requires the programmer to program it instead of having being able to add it easily through the API. Just like in Crysis how at first you couldent have the god rays unless if you ran dx9 well users shortly found out that was all achieveable in dx9. The buzz goinga round dx10 is out of control, people should learn what it actually is instead of thinking that if you add dx10 you will have "uber graphics".

To be honest, myself. For my game engine im using OpenGL. For 4 main reasons, 1. Ive been programming with it longer, 2. It doesent need updates really because you program mainly everything yourself, its just a base. (dont needa make multiple versions) 3. Its multiplatform (makes porting easy), 4. Its the industry standart in leading hi quality graphics (used in 3d apps/movies).

OpenGL can implement features that are far more advanced than anything dx10 can offer. But its up to the programmer or graphic card vendors Nvidia/ATI... Im not saying one is better over the other, they are both good. And if you have a well programmed game engine supporting OpenGL and DirectX 10 shouldent be a problem. 90% of the game companys use dx over ogl for one main, mtherfking big reason. Which is, its quicker to develop with. In your opinion whats easier using directx and adding things such as animation and physics which already have base support.

Directx consists of direct input direct sound, networking and more, its all in one place easy for you to use. Everything already has a base. As for OpenGL is just a Graphics API so you get no networking, no sound, no nothing. Its all up to you, theres no pre-made functions for animation or anything. So it makes development times skyrocket. And then you have to use stuff like OpenAL for sound, and just hard code input or you can also mix opengl with directx, like using opengl to do the graphics/rendering and then use direct input for the controls.etc.

But yea, there hasent been a pure dx10 game yet. And when there is it will be much different, its kinda distrubing to see graphic card vendors poping out so much cards like wtf!? we have gone through the Geforce 8X, 9X, GTX series 3 Gens of cards without 1 pure directx game. Strange isnt it, tbh many games right now out there are pretty poorly programmed, *cough* crysis, dont get me wrong, crysis is good, and warhead was a great improvment on it. But their code is still shotty, is this their fault. No. Because they have a timeframe were the game must be done. Just wait till Rage, The new wolfenstien, or a new ID Software game comes out, they always have top quality games which are usually programmed much better than the rest. Anyways I hope this mess of a reply helps you out, the versions not gonna make a difference. However your card could, anyways just keep in mind that when we hear a game comming out chances are its been in development 3-5+ years. So if dx10 didnt exist that long ago and if they are still mainly supporting dx9. Well then its probably not pure dx10. So why are they putting dx10 options in the game, 2 reasons. 1. They can show off some dx10 effects, 2. Gets people to buy dx10 graphics cards and more powerful graphic cards.

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:) Monkey.

The only news in DX10 comparing to DX9c I noticed yet is no support for XP... Seriously, I see no changes but slight fps drop when playing DMC4 or Lost Planet in DX10.

And yes, there's no full DX10 game yet but they already have announced DX11 to be soon released :)

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DX10 has a lot of changes over 9. Umm the best way to view the changes for now is to look at MS flight and see the changes between the two. As you can see background textures and water is imprssive. But until games come out that take advantage of this, and are programmed directly for DX10 we will see bad perfrmance.

Also DDR5 in GPU's which come out at christmass will help.

dx10.jpg

(im prtty sure the picture isnt 9c.. but it is DX9)

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Guest MonkeyMhz

Yea, well DX10 is a big change over DX9 in the way it runs. We will not see any difference until a game is fully made in DX10 which will be a little while. I honestly dont think DX10 will look any better. Its just that its easier for the developers to use DX10 to make the effects and stuff rather than DX9 because they have more access to more powerful features without coding it by hand. DX10 should work on XP theres no reason why it shouldent, however with teh release of Windows 7 i think everyone will be switching to that, its a *fixed* vista type OS. Even though I had nothing wrong with vista for those who did, windows7 does not have those problems, + its less memory requirements and just less of a hog overall.

Now, eventhough DX10 is the sh!t, OpenGL may make a comeback, I use opengl so its good news for me. But right now were going through some big changes. DX10 is a big change over dx9, now if you want your game to support dx10 and dx9 u pretty much have to change alot of the syntax which is terrible. OpenGL 2.1 -> 3.0 is much eaiser of a change, and opengl doesent have new version updates every couple of years, yes its different to develop with, however even though OpenGL3.0 is being bashed like crazy, I dont think its that bad. OpenGL was pretty much suposed to be a complete rewrite of OpenGL removing all the old crap and nicely sorting and grouping it in a new structure. Well that didnt happen, opengl 3.0 ended up to be opengl2.2 its the same thing as 2.1 except many of the functions are deprected(may not be used in the future and removed) so until they release 3.1 or whatever and actually remove that crap its gonna be behind DX10. Doesent mean you cant make as good graphics and stuff, but it just means its not the head of the game for programability.

You guys will see in the next couple of weeks to a month or so when i post my tech demo what type of graphics you can achieve with OpenGL. Im a one man army doing all the programming, 3d, design, everything. (and ill be using opengl 2.1)...

So pretty much, just forget about API's (opengl,dx9,dx10). Because in the end if the game engine is of good quality switich between API's is not much extra work.

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Wook Posted:

DX10 has a lot of changes over 9. Umm the best way to view the changes for now is to look at MS flight and see the changes between the two. As you can see background textures and water is imprssive. But until games come out that take advantage of this, and are programmed directly for DX10 we will see bad perfrmance.

Also DDR5 in GPU's which come out at christmass will help.

----------------------------------------------------

Yes dx10 has had alot of changes over dx9, flight simulator is decent to see the changes. However background textures have no effect, whatever background texture you can load in DX10 you can also load in DX9. As for the water, this is because DX10 uses Pixel Shader 4.0, DX 9 uses Pixel Shader 3.0, im sure they could have came up with water simular to that with Pixel Shader 3.0 but they didnt bother. It would be easier for them to do it with Pixel Shader 4.0 so thats exactly what they did.

Now directx calls them pixel shaders and in opengl they are called fragment shaders.

New features in DX10 include Geometry Shaders and more. These are all included in DX10, as for opengl you have to use extensions. Which is why it never needs a update really cuz u just add in the extension if you wanna use something, however this can get tedious when ur loading many extensions. Thats what the newer revisions of opengl is try to change, to just make it overall easier to manage.

Shaders can use complex features which your card must support to be used thats why a DX9 card with PS3.0 cannot run a game using PS4.0.

Now if you look on wikipedia DX11 is going to be using Pixel Shader 5.0!. Now dont get all upset if you just got ur DX10 card. Because I dont think we will see a game supporting DX11 for quite some time. At least needa wait for Nvidias next gen of cards (what im waiting for to buy my desktop).

So again. To clear things up. Yes, DX10 can have better graphics through shaders and new features that it supports. However your card must support these features. People who used crysis and said. OMG DX10 has godrays and DX9 doesent, then they came up with the mods/tweaks and get godrays on DX9. Well simply all they did is take that DX10 shader that uses PS4.0 and made it run in DX9. (they probably could have done the same thing for that flight simulator game). Godrays and features like that can run on DX9, id say 95% of the features from Dx10 that we have seen in games so far could be duplicated almost identically in DX9 using PS3.0 instead of 4.0. So until a couple DX10 games come out and we get to see the benefits of it. Until then were not gonna notice anything great.

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