Craig Corp Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Wow, As per the suggestions of some recent posts I too have been able to get 52.16 to work with Pieter's 9.6 inf as provided by Velocity 7 on my Satellite 5105 S501 (GeForce4 440GO 32MB)! A long time ago I reported that I had 52.16 working, then upgraded to another non working version, then could never get 52.16 to work again. It didn't dawn on me that it was because I was using a more recent inf. I may have a clue to a major difference between the 4x.xx and 5x.xx drivers on my Toshiba system. Whenever I install a 4x.xx driver, the computer pops up a "Found new hardware" window after the driver install and installs the plug and play monitor again. None of the 5x.xx drivers do that - except for 52.16 with inf 9.6 (the only working combo). Somehow, I get the feeling this extra step helps define the monitor resolution for the laptop display. I hope this helps one of the inf gurus figure out the problem :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Velocity 7 Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 That would be of interest. I hope something about that gets done, and I'm glad you have a working non-black-bar environment again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Corp Posted March 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Thanks Velocity 7. Just for good measure, I should mention that 52.16 gives only a score of 4312 and choppy graphics on 3D Mark 2001 SE compared to over 4900 and smooth graphics with 44.68. I wound up rolling back to 44.68. I wonder if later Forceware versions will really give more performance to laptop video cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilenvidia Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Craig, When you say "Found new hardware" window after the driver install and installs the plug and play monitor again Do you mean that it installs twice or this is the first time you have seen it after installation of the video driver ? It should always install the monitor after installing the video driver after unistalling video driver via the Control Panel. This is when the GPU looks for the EDID of the LCD and sets the display properites. If it doesn't go through this process then the display properties will be wrong and the black-bar problems will occur. What you could try doing is remove the video driver via control panel then remove the monitor via system properties. Now install any driver (except 53.16 v9.6) if after installation it asks for the display driver the driver should work. If it doesn't just install manually the default Plug and play monitor. See if this makes a difference. If it works I'll put up a modded installation for Toshiba's. Pieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Craig,When you say "Found new hardware" window after the driver install and installs the plug and play monitor again Do you mean that it installs twice or this is the first time you have seen it after installation of the video driver ? It should always install the monitor after installing the video driver after unistalling video driver via the Control Panel. This is when the GPU looks for the EDID of the LCD and sets the display properites. If it doesn't go through this process then the display properties will be wrong and the black-bar problems will occur. :) :) :P :( :( The system never asked to install the monitor after uninstalling/installing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 On my system, display and adapter installation cannot be separated. If I uninstall a driver and reboot, the display is the default one and the settings button is greyed out. If I install a driver and reboot, I get the Toshiba display plus two occurrences of the default display. If I uninstall all those displays and reboot again, those displays are still there after rebooting, with the everlasting black bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilenvidia Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 What should happen is when you uninstall using the Control Panel 'Uninstall nVidia driver' is after it's uninstalled it asks to reboot. After the reboot it will say new video hardware found install driver bla bla. Point it toward the nv4_disp.inf (modded) and install. When done it then finds the new monitor (attached to the just installed GPU). Install this automaticly (Windows has the driver). Now reboot (even though it doesn't say to). If the above doesn't happen in that order something is wrong. If the Monitor isn't found right after installing the Video driver this is what could be causing the screen problems. As this is when the EDID is read. I hope this helps, I wonder if Toshiba has done something odd to their Panels ? Pieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Corp Posted March 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Hi Pieter, The sequence you discribe above is what happens with the 4x.xx drivers as well as with 52.16/9.6. None of the other 5x.xx drivers find and install the monitor after the nVidia drivers are installed. I had already thought of uninstalling the nVidia driver (from add/remove programs) then manually uninstalling the plug and play monitor from device manger then rebooting. When I did that, it found new hardware (the display adapter) which I installed (tried 56.63). It did NOT look for, nor have an install dialogue for, the plug and play monitor, but when I checked device manager, the plug and play monitor was there. Unfortunately, so was the black bar, and my max res was still detected as 1372x1050 instead of 1400x1050. Very odd, huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
®®® Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 as you can tell from my signature i use the 52.16 / 11.64 combination for some month. Unfortunetly i forgot, if the plugnplay monitor installation thing appeared or not. Nevertheless 2 default monitor devices can be found in my registry and device manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 What should happen is when you uninstall using the Control Panel 'Uninstall nVidia driver' is after it's uninstalled it asks to reboot.After the reboot it will say new video hardware found install driver bla bla. Point it toward the nv4_disp.inf (modded) and install. When done it then finds the new monitor (attached to the just installed GPU). Install this automaticly (Windows has the driver). ... If the Monitor isn't found right after installing the Video driver this is what could be causing the screen problems. As this is when the EDID is read. Pieter, in fact, when I install a working driver, there is definitely something between the message with the finish button and the dualview installation message. It disappears very quickly and it is really hard to see. I think there's a message about Windows looking for a device driver. Maybe that's the panel installation. BTW, I extracted the EDIDs for a black bar driver and a working one from HKLM\SYSTEM\CCS\Enum\DISPLAY\ and they differ. The EDID version is 1.3 in both, but the Year of Manufacture is 1999 for the working driver and 1990 (wrong and out of specification range) for the black bar one. The Color Characteristics are zeroed in the black bar driver. Monitor descriptor strings are "Toshiba Internal Panel" for the black bar driver and "Toshiba Internal 1024x768 Panel" for the working one. Another difference is the Feature Support byte, though it is not inconsistent with the data in either case. Detailed Timing Descriptions are identical. Too bad that modifying the registry value is impossible, since it is restored at reboot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilenvidia Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 There must be something wrong when the it gets to the monitor installation part. Have you tried installing a working driver, then without uninstaling, a non working driver. This way the monitor stays the same. (ie won't reinstall) BTW The 2 default monitors are the Video-out and TV-out leave these as they won't affect the LCD panel. The Plug and Play monitor is the LCD display. More things to try if you havn't already. Does anybody reading this or know of someone that deals with Toshiba's (ie Refurbish them) if they could send me one doesn't matter what state it's in. (as long as it works) and it's a Black-bar model (see sticky at top of this section), I'm sure I could have this solved. All I basicly need is a HD with 5GB to install XP and some other testing progs and a CD drive. Memory can be as low as 128MB (to run XP) Don't need floppy or anything else. It would be a lot faster to test the things I know might work myself I can just have a test bed going continally testing settings. This is the best I can do for now, Pieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Corp Posted April 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Hi Pieter, I tried installling 56.82 over working 52.16, I still got black bar after the install made me reboot - good idea though, it was worth a try.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 (edited) I tried 56.64/20.22 over working 45.33, black bar. Edited April 2, 2004 by ministeve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Today I've carefully checked what I believe are the relevant registry keys, both for a black bar driver (56.63/20.24) and a working one (56.12/11.65). Basically there is no difference. 56.63 seems to install the panel, as the keys in the monitor section under HKLM...\Control\Class\... get updated and a correct reference is set in the adapter section. The only things that differ are {a} the EDID, and {b} the DeviceReference value under the Control key. Even if I manually set the EDID to a previously saved value from the registry state of 52.16/11.65, at reboot the EDID is changed back to its previous state :angry: . And the DeviceReference is also changed. Notice that I made my modifications in the ControlSet001, which is the active control in my machine. Now the question is: what can change the EDID registry key at boot? If I can't stop that I will never be able to check that EDID (which just does not look quite right the way 56.63 sets it) is not responsible. Deep frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Did you tried changing the authorization of the registry keys ? (right click on the key (I'm not sure about the term I'm using right now, I mean the kind of tiny folders on the left panel of the registry editor) / authorization / ... and then, refuse ecevry kind of modification for everyone, even "system") ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Thanks for your hint, Guest. I've just tried it. I have restricted authorization to only everyone and system read only everywhere below the key having the control subkey (in ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY). Somehow the system circumvented it and restored the original EDID. (Black bar.) Apparently a device driver can do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilenvidia Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 You could try making a reg file that writes the EDID back over the changed version. Just use 'Startup' to do it, it will do it after all the drivers have been loaded. Make a .reg file with the EDID registry settings, then just shove the link in Startup folder. just an idea. Pieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Did you took a look at "Advanced Parameters" for the key registry authorizations ? Sometimes, authorizations are inherited from other keys. Just be sure that these authorizations are not inherited from others and are read-olny ... In general, making regitry keys read only while the system would like to write is really efficient ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 What about removing all monitor and resolution related lines from a new inf, and then installing this new version over a working one? This way the new driver wouldn't overwrite the old monitor's settings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Pieter, Guest, thanks for your suggestions. I did check inherited auths, and they're read only for anyone even system. What we know is that a master EDID residing in non-volatile memory is copied at boot over a value (EDID) below the panel's entry (...\TOS5082\<some_key>\Device Parameters) in the active control set of registry. I fear that the EDID that is used by the driver during normal operation is a copy of the master, and that this copy is done at boot, and that such EDID is used for updating the registry EDID value as well. One can only hope that the master is on disk, and that the master is written once from the panel's ROM when the driver is installed. In that case, finding a way to install over a working driver without changing that disk-resident master copy, would work. But if the master AT BOOT IS the panel's ROM, then all hopes are lost. I am aware that this is almost pure speculation. Therefore I will ignore the problem for a while (especially if imminent release of 6x.xx drivers should be confirmed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
®®® Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Notice that I made my modifications in the ControlSet001, which is the active control in my machine. the 001, 002 etc. trees are saved Hardware configurations from 2K or XP from earlier working (i.e. no BSOD or missing reg entries or DLLs or whatever) settings, so you'll have to apply and save modificatioons to the 000 tree. Can you doublecheck if it's really the "active registry control tree/hive"? And if so why is it like this? I mean under normal circumstance the active key is 000 instead of 001 or 002 etc. Btw it is much appreciated that you do such investigating and deep (!) tests and researchs. Also you have a clear writing skill which is easy to read and understand :) (beware when i try to explain things :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Notice that I made my modifications in the ControlSet001, which is the active control in my machine. the 001, 002 etc. trees are saved Hardware configurations from 2K or XP from earlier working (i.e. no BSOD or missing reg entries or DLLs or whatever) settings, so you'll have to apply and save modificatioons to the 000 tree. Can you doublecheck if it's really the "active registry control tree/hive"? And if so why is it like this? I mean under normal circumstance the active key is 000 instead of 001 or 002 etc. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Select\Current equals 1. According to some text notes attached to a registry tool I'm using, that means CurrentControlSet is a copy of ControlSet001. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Select\LastKnownGood equals 2, and I do see a ControlSet002 under SYSTEM. That should be the backup copy, I think. Another system I manage has the same structure. Btw it is much appreciated that you do such investigating and deep (!) tests and researchs. Also you have a clear writing skill which is easy to read and understand :) (beware when i try to explain things :) ) Thanks for the good words. Exploring the EDIDs was just a chance to learn something new about a system (Win) I have not used so often. BTW a few days ago I downloaded a small DOS utility get-edid.exe which should extract the EDID from an adapter/monitor using DDC. It does not work for me, that is, initialization is fine, but when the 128 byte EDID block should be retrieved, the program loops instead. The location is http://john.fremlin.de/programs/linux/read-edid/ (or search get-edid.exe in Google). the original version is for Linux, so if anyone has a dualboot machine, the Linux version might be easier to use. It might be interesting to validate that program. If you should know of similar tools, please, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I have to rectify: djgpp has been dropped because it was probably broken, notes included in the sources of a later version of the program say. Therefore the DOS precompiled version perhaps should not be trusted too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teraphy Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 I'd say most LCD's will NOT give you a proper EDID. But the rationale would be.. man if I could make a flow chart now I would -> Get EDID from monitor Result = Success/Failure If Failure then read lookup table / create. (I'd guess a lookup table) Failure then Windows would be confused. Success 50/50 chance it obtained the right one. But how does it know the right one? If it's based on a driver it should be safe to assume (if you know how to dissasemble code) to find where it attempts to find it and just hard code your true value. How's my logic? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ministeve Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Get EDID from monitorResult = Success/Failure If Failure then read lookup table / create. (I'd guess a lookup table) Failure then Windows would be confused. Success 50/50 chance it obtained the right one. But how does it know the right one? If it's based on a driver it should be safe to assume (if you know how to dissasemble code) to find where it attempts to find it and just hard code your true value. Yesterday I tried 56.63/NVTS.inf (black bar as expected) and I found out that it does not install the TOS5082 monitor as all other drivers do, but the "nvidia default flat panel". (NVTS.inf is Toshiba's OEM inf.) This could be instance of a driver bypassing the panel's EDID. Hardcoding is a surely an option. But I won't try it until the 6x.xx series is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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