Refresh rates

[Guest Church]

Hey I have a new laptop with a Geforce Go 6600 in it, (17Inch screen) and the ONLY refresh rates im allowed to choose from are 58 and 59. Is there anyway to add more refresh rates??? I cant play certain games either because of the low refresh rate it seems. Thx!!!!!

[Fabrice Roux]

On a laptop you are pretty much locked at whatever refresh rate the screen has... most of the time its 60Hz buth there are some 58, 59 and 61 running around. It should be an issue since a game SHOULD rely on DirectX to get the screen supported resolutions and refresh rates. (or OpenGL depending on the game)

Unfortunately some CRAPPY devs refuse to use the few lines of code that allows to retrieve supported modes. The most famous is the Battlefield franchise. In the case of Battlefield you have to edit a stupid file to get the desired refresh rate.

Tell us which games give you troubles...

[sed8ed]

In the event that your laptop doesnt display the refresh rate you want you could try this trick. By downloading one of the forceware drivers on this site (i's recommend late 80's) you should be able to force refresh rates for your screen. In battlefield 2 (this is an example of a game not natively supported by my lcd display on my notebook) modifying the video.con files does not always work for sub 60hz screens, you may actually get an error about dynamic sizing =800x600 is not supported or something similiar. Best way to try and locate the error is to set the battlefield folder to only open a certain size. Right click on the battlefield 2 icon and select properties, look at the target box, it should look something like this:

ES\Battlefield 2\BF2.exe" +menu 1 +fullscreen 1

You can change it to:

ES\Battlefield 2\BF2.exe" +menu 1 +fullscreen 0

you may have to change the end numbers from this 01 to 00 instead of the above example.

Try to run battlefield 2 and this will give a smaller screen but also post an error message that you can see,

this may help you to pinpoint if it is in fact the graphics resolution (or hertz) or something else. After noting the error message return the above line of text to original. I cant be sure but the dynamic sizing not support 800x600 error is due to not being able to display the game at these settings using 59 hertz (I think)

Once you have established that your refresh rate is too blame (you have tried everything from re-install to deleting BF2 folder in my documents and changing every .con file you can get your mits on) The end result wil be to use the latest forceware drivers (i would start earlier and work your way up if you have instability or poor resolutions and stretched images). In some of the 80's series drivers (I cant remember which ones) you have an option to overide the default refresh rates (you do this entirely at your own risk and you may void your warranty, check with your manufacturer to see if in fact your notebook can display a higher refresh rate but doesnt display it in the properties section) open the nvidia control, click on Screen Resolutions & Refresh Rates, uncheck "Hide Modes this monitor canot support". Click on add, a custom resolutions tab opens and you can input the screen refresh rate for the resolution you wish to use. Input 60 Hertz and the resolution you wish to display for this game or another e.g:

"1024x768 at 60 hertz" or

"800x768" 60 hertz. I would recommend trying the lowest settings. this being the lowest.

I think you may have to also click on the "only show custom modes" in order to not default back to original settings i.e 59hz.

click on the game icon and test to see if it will run.

I have tested this on my rig and it worked. I cannot gaurantee that this will work for all uses with screens using sub 60hz and for how long without damaging your display. I cannot gaurantee that you wont damage your notebook monitor or in fact lock yourself out of your display. In the event that the above does occur try attaching an external monitor or boot into safe mode and remove the drivers of you graphics hardware. I am not a profesional nor am I an expert, but this did work for me and I am a complete novice who took risk to try and sort out my gaming issues. I did a lot of research before coming to my decision to use a 1hz increase and it was not conclusive. I will not be held responsible for damage to your much prized possesion. THIS IS AT YOU OWN RISK!!!!.

GOOD LUCK!!

Edited June 5, 2006 by sed8ed

[Guest cs: player]

In the event that your laptop doesnt display the refresh rate you want you could try this trick. By downloading one of the forceware drivers on this site (i's recommend late 80's) you should be able to force refresh rates for your screen. In battlefield 2 (this is an example of a game not natively supported by my lcd display on my notebook) modifying the video.con files does not always work for sub 60hz screens, you may actually get an error about dynamic sizing =800x600 is not supported or something similiar. Best way to try and locate the error is to set the battlefield folder to only open a certain size. Right click on the battlefield 2 icon and select properties, look at the target box, it should look something like this:

ES\Battlefield 2\BF2.exe" +menu 1 +fullscreen 1

You can change it to:

ES\Battlefield 2\BF2.exe" +menu 1 +fullscreen 0

you may have to change the end numbers from this 01 to 00 instead of the above example.

Try to run battlefield 2 and this will give a smaller screen but also post an error message that you can see,

this may help you to pinpoint if it is in fact the graphics resolution (or hertz) or something else. After noting the error message return the above line of text to original. I cant be sure but the dynamic sizing not support 800x600 error is due to not being able to display the game at these settings using 59 hertz (I think)

Once you have established that your refresh rate is too blame (you have tried everything from re-install to deleting BF2 folder in my documents and changing every .con file you can get your mits on) The end result wil be to use the latest forceware drivers (i would start earlier and work your way up if you have instability or poor resolutions and stretched images). In some of the 80's series drivers (I cant remember which ones) you have an option to overide the default refresh rates (you do this entirely at your own risk and you may void your warranty, check with your manufacturer to see if in fact your notebook can display a higher refresh rate but doesnt display it in the properties section) open the nvidia control, click on Screen Resolutions & Refresh Rates, uncheck "Hide Modes this monitor canot support". Click on add, a custom resolutions tab opens and you can input the screen refresh rate for the resolution you wish to use. Input 60 Hertz and the resolution you wish to display for this game or another e.g:

"1024x768 at 60 hertz" or

"800x768" 60 hertz. I would recommend trying the lowest settings. this being the lowest.

I think you may have to also click on the "only show custom modes" in order to not default back to original settings i.e 59hz.

click on the game icon and test to see if it will run.

I have tested this on my rig and it worked. I cannot gaurantee that this will work for all uses with screens using sub 60hz and for how long without damaging your display. I cannot gaurantee that you wont damage your notebook monitor or in fact lock yourself out of your display. In the event that the above does occur try attaching an external monitor or boot into safe mode and remove the drivers of you graphics hardware. I am not a profesional nor am I an expert, but this did work for me and I am a complete novice who took risk to try and sort out my gaming issues. I did a lot of research before coming to my decision to use a 1hz increase and it was not conclusive. I will not be held responsible for damage to your much prized possesion. THIS IS AT YOU OWN RISK!!!!.

GOOD LUCK!!

hello, for my laptop (dell xps m1710) i'm wondering if i can increase the refresh rates for "day of defeat:soruce" and "couterstrike:source" when i turn around its very evident (i can make otu the refresh "line")

thanks!!!

[Fabrice Roux]

hello, for my laptop (dell xps m1710) i'm wondering if i can increase the refresh rates for "day of defeat:soruce" and "couterstrike:source" when i turn around its very evident (i can make otu the refresh "line")

This is not a refresh rate issue... it's called VSYNC. You probably have VSYNC off which means that your graphic card display the image whenever it's ready. If you want to get rid of this tearing... you need to turn VSYNC on. This will cap your frame rate to submultiple of the screen refresh rate. (60, 30, 15, 7, 3)

[Ice-Tea]

(60, 30, 15, 7, 3)

That's not entirely as it works, I believe. If correctly implemented, it works as a frame store buffer. A frame is repeated when the next frame isn't complete. If it is, the new frame is displayed. In the case of fps > 60, some frames in excess are tossed out the window.

[Fabrice Roux]

That is exactly how it works... the only simplification I used is that the graphic system is in fact able to use every single step from 60fps to 0fps.

To simplify what happens imagine 2 frame buffers... the first one is used for display while the other one is used by the GPU to render the next frame.

If the VSYNC is off whenever the GPU finish the next frame the pointers between the two buffers. The newly calculated frame is now displayed... then the GPU starts to work on the next one on the other frame buffer. This switching can occur while the image is refreshed on the screen hence the refresh line accross the screen. (tearing)

With VSYNC on the new frame is held until the next VSYNC (vertical synchronisation) so the change occurs before the beginning of the screen refresh... the refresh line is not visible. But the frame rate is capped.

If the system is able to create the new frame while the current one is displayed the frame rate is at 60fps. If the scene is heavier and take more than one frame refresh to render you end up with 30fps... if it takes 3 frames to render 20 fps... and so on 15, 10, 7...

ps: in the previous post I forgot the odd submultiples...

[Ice-Tea]

That is exactly how it works... the only simplification I used is that the graphic system is in fact able to use every single step from 60fps to 0fps.

To simplify what happens imagine 2 frame buffers... the first one is used for display while the other one is used by the GPU to render the next frame.

If the VSYNC is off whenever the GPU finish the next frame the pointers between the two buffers. The newly calculated frame is now displayed... then the GPU starts to work on the next one on the other frame buffer. This switching can occur while the image is refreshed on the screen hence the refresh line accross the screen. (tearing)

With VSYNC on the new frame is held until the next VSYNC (vertical synchronisation) so the change occurs before the beginning of the screen refresh... the refresh line is not visible. But the frame rate is capped.

If the system is able to create the new frame while the current one is displayed the frame rate is at 60fps. If the scene is heavier and take more than one frame refresh to render you end up with 30fps... if it takes 3 frames to render 20 fps... and so on 15, 10, 7...

ps: in the previous post I forgot the odd submultiples...

Hmm... I'm not sure about this one, but I think it's full multiple (60/30/15...) when you have a dual frame store and any number between 60 and 0 when you have a triple frame store buffer. I'd have to check :)

[Fabrice Roux]

Hmm... I'm not sure about this one, but I think it's full multiple (60/30/15...) when you have a dual frame store and any number between 60 and 0 when you have a triple frame store buffer. I'd have to check :)

Nah triple buffering holds an extra image... it works as an extra buffer. The math is pretty simple so it's 60 divided by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7....

Triple buffering allows the graphic card to work on the frame n+2 when it's still displaying frame n and the processing of frame n+1 is already done.

ps: on the previous post I forgot about 5... which gives 12fps... I really need some brain training on the DS Lite.

[Ice-Tea]

Nah triple buffering holds an extra image... it works as an extra buffer. The math is pretty simple so it's 60 divided by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7....

Triple buffering allows the graphic card to work on the frame n+2 when it's still displaying frame n and the processing of frame n+1 is already done.

ps: on the previous post I forgot about 5... which gives 12fps... I really need some brain training on the DS Lite.

Maybe it's done like that for graphics cards, but a 'true' tfsb does not work with multiples.

[Fabrice Roux]

Front side bus is not graphic card rendering... you cant cut a steady frequency in other than power of 2. Here is a different case...

[Ice-Tea]

Front side bus is not graphic card rendering... you cant cut a steady frequency in other than power of 2. Here is a different case...

TFSB = Tripple Frame Store Buffer. I mean that a 'real' TFSB will have 53 frames displayed if there are 53 available. No multiples.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Ice-Tea

[Fabrice Roux]

I'm not familiar with this TFSB thingy... and what domain it applies. Certainly not the 3D rendering... rendering that many frames in advance will lead to almost a 1 second lag for the user. This is perfect for a drunk effect simulation.

In 3D rendering like Direct3D the graphic card can render 2 full frames in parallel of the frame being displayed. Plus the driver can prepare some frames in the memory in advance (just the primitives).

[Ice-Tea]

I'm not familiar with this TFSB thingy... and what domain it applies. Certainly not the 3D rendering... rendering that many frames in advance will lead to almost a 1 second lag for the user. This is perfect for a drunk effect simulation.

In 3D rendering like Direct3D the graphic card can render 2 full frames in parallel of the frame being displayed. Plus the driver can prepare some frames in the memory in advance (just the primitives).

Comes from proffesional camera equipment with gen locking. As I said, I don't know how it's done with graphics cards.And 3 frames = +/-48ms.

[Fabrice Roux]

The camera send the frames at a steady rate... if the buses used in the camera computer might be used by other devices it's smart to use the largest buffer you can. It's the same when you want to burn a CD.

In the case of 3D games the frames are calculated in real time you can't precalculate that much frames.

[Ice-Tea]

The camera send the frames at a steady rate... if the buses used in the camera computer might be used by other devices it's smart to use the largest buffer you can. It's the same when you want to burn a CD.

In the case of 3D games the frames are calculated in real time you can't precalculate that much frames.

I wasn't talking about computer hardware. This is about a dedicated tripple frame store buffer for locking, per example, a PAL/SECAM camera to a 60Hz monitor. But I agree that adding that much delay probably isn't acceptable to most gamers.