8600M GT downclocking...again....

[anonymous1986]

Hmm it seems that a 9500m GS has the same problems: http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/index....howtopic=19865:

At random while playing HL2 it will stutter briefly then it comes back at half the framerate. I checked GPU-Z and my GPU, even with powermizer "Disabled", and on HIgh Performance, is dropping down to roughly half the clock speed.

The only way to remedy this is to restart, which can be as often as every half hour.

This is completly F(&^*** insane. Is there a specific driver that will help stop this?

I'm using a Gemstone Blue with an 9500M GS and (I believe) the 174.16 drivers.

Could be a driver issue then?

[anonymous1986]

Looking around on google seems to indicate that it's a driver issue and not overheating:

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=421769...ey=%F1%A6%BE%89

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=480692...ey=񵖴

[AV Logistics]

Thats primarily how they're trying to prevent the overheating, is through driver control. I'm sure that G84/G86 have a higher thermal limit than 78c, or 63c,

around the temp yours downclocks. Its just to lower the probability of u having any gpu failures and require repair that oem's have to pay out there pocket.

And the guy having problems with the 9500m gs, It's probablly the same scenario. We all know that the G92 core is the best nvidias made yet and

all of the geforce 9 series use that core, maybe shruken down, but essentially still the same exact thing. So waht makes u think they wouldn't do

the same thing with there mobile cards? Now I'm not trying to bash nvidia, I only use nvidia in both desktop and laptop graphics. They make a

good product. Just this time around I think they have some Q&C controls they need to get worked out. And I'm still trying to figure out why older

drivers work for some laptops/oem's, but not others.

[anonymous1986]

Ok checked my bios with nibitor, i only have a critical temp setting on the temperature which is 110, throttling and others are greyed out.

Just wondering do new drivers change the bios settings?

G84_M.bin

Edited July 31, 2008 by anonymous1986

[Kaaji1359]

OK, it still underclocks unfortunately. I havn't tested the temperatures yet though.

I looked at that website given above about it being a driver issue. I have the latest 177.79 driver that the person recommended and it still happens.

Looks like the only option now is to change the BIOS, right?? Either increase the fan more and/or raise the underclocking temp. settings (probably to a safe 88C right? I'd still like it to underclock if it gets too hot)...

If this is what we need to do, anyone know where to start???

Edited July 31, 2008 by Kaaji1359

[AV Logistics]

Yeah, I just opened it up. Your right, critical is 110c. If critical is 110C, I would think its safe for a temp of at least 85-86C without any problems. Also note

that if your card is not an mxm module, the vga bios IS probablly integrated with the system bios and would explain why u don't have any throttling

or fan boost temps present. If thats the case, theres a good chance that the drivers have priority over bios settings, meaning that the driver sets

the temps and not whats stored in the bios. Thanks for uploading that though. I appreciate it. I think wook may have got mixed up since

he uploaded his sysytem bios. Bye the way, who does dell use for the bios anyway? :)

[AV Logistics]

Yeah, you'd have to modify the vga bios clocks. Heres a good thread on how to do it.

Heres a screen of nibitor and how to change clocks. The throttling clocks are 275/200. If u havent broke over 80c I think a safe increase would be to

take it to stock 3d settings 475/400.

[Kaaji1359]

OK thanks. So before I delve into this, this is what we think is the core of the problem and pretty much is the only thing we can do to fix this annoying problem, right? Just wanting to make sure before I risk messing up something.

I'm assuming if I DO mess up something, I can just re-install A09? And I'm sure I'll be posting quite a few questions regarding how to do this lol... not too computer savvy.

[anonymous1986]

Is it possible to update the nvidia bios, and do nvidia provide new vga bios? I'm asking since mine seem to be pretty old (07/2007).

[AV Logistics]

Flashing the vga bios is relatively easy. U just have to make sure it is no interrupted at all, or it will fail. It only takes a few seconds so that shouldn't be

hard. Its what manufatuers do and then sell for 50 bucks more cuz its factory overclocked(idiots who buy the superclocked or xxx versions anyway :) )

The core of the problem is the temperature settings that the card throttles at. Since I don't know if this is controlled by the driver, or bios, or both,

overriding the clocks that it throttles at will give it no choice but to stay at what u set no matter what the bios or driver tells it to do.

I've flashed several desktop cards and its always worked fine for me. For the laptop ur just gonna have to make it set to boot from usb first so

if it does go corrupt u can reflash blindly. That's the worst case scenario and I doubt you'll encounter that problem.

To anonymous 1986, I'm not sure if nvidia provides vga bios updates. For laptops I can almost guarantee they don't. I don't think they expect someone

to even think about that since the "average user" wouldn't get into this type of discussion in the first place. But if they do, it would totally be on the oem.

Edited July 31, 2008 by AV Logistics

[Kaaji1359]

AV Logistics:

So what are we doing with NiBiTor?? Are we 1) override the clocks to what I want it at (default settings, or my OC settings) and that will keep the max settings on 24/7?? OR 2) are we overriding the temperature setting at which it underclocks from?? I'm a little confused about the goal of this (I thought we were changing temp's). Forgive me for the confusion...

I like how my GPU goes to lower 2D settings when I'm not playing a game... it saves on battery life when I need my laptop for school/work, so I'd like to keep it that way if possible.

If were overriding the clock settings, that's explained already. If were overriding the temperature settings, I'm assuming that under NiBiTor we go to the "temperature" tab?? What then??

Edited July 31, 2008 by Kaaji1359

[AV Logistics]

We don't have control over the temp settings. Have a Look.

Were changing the clocks at which it throttles to. And I wouldn't touch the 2d settings. You can leave them as they are. The reason we can't change the temps

is because it may be controlled by both bios and driver, and if that's the case, I see no formidable solution. And do you overclock your gpu with any

software program?

[Kaaji1359]

I OC with the nVidia System Tools, which I'm assuming I wouldn't use if I OC using the BIOS? So what your saying is that there's 3D settings (game), Throttling Settings (somewhere in between), and 2D settings (when almost nothing is running), and what were doing is to make 3D and Throttling the same so that when it does underclock, then it'll remain the same.

2 questions though:

- When are the low 2D settings active? Internet?? MATLAB?? Just trying to figure it out to see if this fix is viable or not.

- I remember one time my GPU underclocked twice and actually went to 2D settings when I was playing the game... This brings up another problem. First off, it could underclock twice and I would still have the same problem. Secondly, I'm assuming the game would still freeze during the underclocking procedure.

Is there anyway we can figure out how to change the temp. settings for the BIOS and/or Driver? I can do some tests to find out how to fix this if you have any in mind.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Kaaji1359

[AV Logistics]

2d is usually wordpad, non-flash web, and the such. If u were 2 change the throttiling settings I highly doubt it would undreclock to 2d in a 3d application.

And since I have a xps1530 bios thanks to wook, I could probablly edit it, but I don't know who dell uses for the bios? If I knew that we might be able to

change the temperature settings at trottiling. 1 other thing I was thinking is changing the critical temp. The cmos might set its values off of this and

derives every other value from it. But one more problem we might run into doing that is the driver priority over the bios as far as the temps are

concerned. I really wish I had a xps right know so I can physically investigate it myself. If u know who makes the bios please let me know :)

[anonymous1986]

Thanks for the reply AV, just hope that a new driver comes out soon to sort this mess out. Until then i'll stick with 169.44.

[Kaaji1359]

I'll try to investigate that. Maybe Dell forums will help...

If you think that the driver overrides the BIOS, why don't we just change the driver critical temps?? Or I'm assuming we can't do that since you havn't mentioned that yet :)

BTW, I can't thank you enough for the help with this problem. Thank you so much for the replies!!

[AV Logistics]

As far as modifying the driver, you'd have to ask someone else as I know nothing about that. I do have 1 more option possibly. Have you tried powersrip?

Little oc utility that lets u change 2d and 3d clocks on the fly. It might even let you change low performance 3d clocks. Check it out.

powerstrip

If that works, I'll praise the God's :)

[Kaaji1359]

Unfortunately I think the game is down ATM so I can't get on to test...

So Powerstrip doesn't have shader clocks, just GPU and memory (shader's pretty important). Does this program just keep the gpu/mem/shader clocks on no matter what when your running a game?? If so, then it might work and I'll have to test it...

I ended up posting on the Dell website, so we'll see if I get any responses.

About the BIOS issue... let's just assume that the BIOS uses the driver for temperature control. Do you know of anybody, or where I can post, to get some information about changing the driver temps??

[AV Logistics]

Shader is 2x core clock i.e 475mhz core=950mhz shader in respect to the defaults of your card. And there are several bios editing programs out there,

that's why I asked who makes the dell bios, because most programs only work for one type or the other because they use different manufacturers like

phoenix or ami. I personally don't know anybody off hand since all my friends/family come to me for tech support :) .

And definitely stay up to date on the dell forums since this seems like a very common problem among many, many Dell laptop users.

Someones had to figured this out by know, they're just not sharing there knowledge :)

[Kaaji1359]

Someone said "most" of Dell uses Phoenix... know what that means?

[AV Logistics]

Yes, thats phoenix technologies. Same bios on my laptop. You might be in luck cause theres a program called phoenix bios editor thats u can get off of

bittorent. I'm going to locate and download asap. I hope wook's bios he posted isn't corrupted, or else I can't do much until I have a good copy

of the xps/inspiron bios. If I figure anything out you'll be the first 2 know :)

[Kaaji1359]

Amazing, thanks so much!

[Kaaji1359]

So I decided to go into the BIOS and I found this option for the fan. It was on "bypass" and the other options were "Slower, but quieter" or "Performance, but louder". So I chose performance, and I was on the game for like 2, maybe 3 hours today with no problem.

I re-start my laptop and get back on (it's raining here, nothing to do!) and 10 minutes into it my laptop downclocks. I turn on nVidia GPU Temp monitor and it only says 70C (or maybe by the time the nVidia opened up it was cooler... who knows). It still runs decent (but with only 10-14 FPS) and it downclocks AGAIN, this time at around 65C. That's weird part... it downclocked again, and with throttling settings the temps aren't that hot.

It's really weird because sometimes I can get on AOC and it can run for hours without downclocking, sometimes it'll run 10 minutes before it downclocks. Starting to sound really odd... sometimes it sounds like a temp issue, other times it doesn't.

Just thought I'd update you...

Edited August 1, 2008 by Kaaji1359

[wook]

are you sure? the only options in the A07/08/09 BIOS of which you menton are for the HDD options. Thats hard drive not fan settings.

[wook]

I still think you need to ring up XPS tech support. They will probablly replace some parts in your machine... and... if this resolves your issue then great. if not, then you know for certiant its not a hardware or heat issue, and it is a software that is causing your computer do this. Then simply change to XP

I have said this many times. I had the same issue as you did, and i have the exact same syste as you do... My downclocking issues are solved due to hardware replacement.